Thanks for the link, Ilyka, and the introduction to your blog...

Oh hey, no need to thank me. I have been meaning to add yours to my roll for for-freakin'-ever and I keep forgetting to do it--so that post was a useful reminder to me to just add the damn link already!

If people get pissed off enough at you you won't have to have posted any picture ever: they'll call you fat and ugly anyway. I've had this tactic directed at me by some sicko trolls, who must have thought "I know! I'll call her fat and ugly! Even though I have no idea what she actually looks like! Because all women think they are fat and ugly and it will ruin her ability to argue with me and I'll have won!"

A true conservative is supposed to be a gentleman, since "conservative" means, among other things, a fondness for old-fashioned behavior like gallantry towards the female sex. From the behavior of many men on the internet has led me to believe that there are very few actual conservatives in right-wing circles these days. Most rightwing men seem to actually be merely politically rightwing -- when it comes to social behavior they are libertarian, if not libertine.

That being said, I have encountered a very few true gentlemen on the internet. One I can think of off the top of my head is Scott Chaffin of The Fat Guy. Tim Blair is also a gentleman too; I've never heard him make fun of a woman's looks, not even Margo Kingston.

Oh, I've had fat and ugly myself, starting all the way back with Hawkins and snowballing from there. It's why I won't post a picture--I DO happen to be fat at the moment, 36 pounds from my goal weight, and, while I don't think I'm ugly, it wouldn't stop someone from suggesting that I am anyway. Hell, they're calling Jill Filipovic ugly at some stupid NYU forum, and the woman is anything but.

So help me, I hate to quote Amanda Marcotte, but one thing she noted in the Feministe thread is absolutely true: Men who whip out the fat-and-ugly routine don't even CARE whether it's accurate. It's just their way of kicking you in the nuts, so to speak.

I agree that Blair is a gentleman, but I think he linked a picture of Margo's once that was less than flattering--I don't think he himself said anything about it, but he had to know that'd be blood in the water for his commenters, and as I recall, it was. Well, the left does the same thing to the Derb (and how I heart them when they do!), so I guess it all evens out.

And, I mean, it's MARGO. The temptation to cover all the bases of Margo-mockery would be irresistible.

Or, you can do like I did and find the best picture you have of yourself when you were depressed and skinny (instead of fat and happy) and post it on the Internet.

It really IS me. Just about 30 pounds ago.

Because I do like to see who I'm talking to. But it's really idiots who call that gorgeous Feministe woman "hideous."

Hideous? Not on her WORST day.

What makes the "let's insult her looks as an argumentative tactic" so stupid is the fact that everyone knows looks mean nothing. Some of the prettiest people have the nastiest personality, and vice versa. And beauty really doesn't bring respect anyway; just look at the way women and men treat a gorgeous woman.

The fact is attacking a woman's looks really does hurt most women's feelings, even if she knows her opponent has no idea what she looks like because she's never posted her photo or mentioned what she looks like on a public forum. But, because of whatever reason (too many to go into here but I don't think I have to) many women have this looks=important dynamic going on in their heads, and important things trigger anxiety.

As for men, they aren't so much worried about their looks as about their masculinity. So next time a man tries to use your fears of being thought fat and ugly against you attack his manhood. Point out that calling someone you disagree with "fat and ugly!" is a favorite tactic of women who are fighting (well, it is), and ask him what kind of a real man fights like a girl?

And beauty really doesn't bring respect anyway; just look at the way women and men treat a gorgeous woman.

You mean like the way everyone treats my very favoritest piece of Daffy Taffy?

Yeah, I don't know that I'd really call that respect. More like "handle with kid gloves."

As for men, they aren't so much worried about their looks as about their masculinity.

Yup, that's just what Hugo said. It's actually in the paragraph following the one I quoted:

The attacks on my see-saw picture last year were not about my body or my face -- they were about my engaging in an "unmanly" activity. Trolls, you see, attack men for acting in ways that aren't congruent with generally accepted standards of masculinity; they attack women for their weight and their looks.

The conclusion I get from all this? Trolls aren't too smart, but they sure do love their old reliables.

Trolls, you see, attack men for acting in ways that aren't congruent with generally accepted standards of masculinity; they attack women for their weight and their looks.

Yup. Standard Psychology 101 Button-Pushing.

I thought the picture of Hugo was cute. He looked like he was having a bit of fun, and even if you didn't know he was entertaining his young relatives I really don't understand anyone who could have gotten offended by that picture. It's just bizarre, like someone being offended by a picture of a cheese sandwich.

And back to the subject of mocking women's looks, we're just in time for OMGMARIAHCAREYSHESSOFAT. And you know what? Though I too think that dress was inappropriate -- because I think all glitter-encrusted sexdoll dressed with ass-revealing fringe are inappropriate -- I think she looks just fine. She actually has some flesh on her bones, indicating that she eats normally instead of subsisting on the usual celebrity female diet of spring water and half a cornflake per day. (This was brought to my attention by Ace ole buddy ole pal Dave at Garfield Ridge.)

Andrea: And I'll bet the OHMIGODSHEESOFAAAT folks made not one comment on how "Weekend At Bernies" poor old Dick Clark looks?

And you know, I hope to GAWD that those stupid trolls of Hugo's don't have children because you know, that's when I act my goofiest. . .when I'm making a baby/toddler/child laugh.

I'm convinced that the anteroom to Heaven has baby laughter piped in. But that's just me.

(This was brought to my attention by Ace ole buddy ole pal Dave at Garfield Ridge.)

But of course! It's kind of Dave's THING, isn't it? That's why I don't read him. He's not that talented on other subjects anyway, and the "waaaah, this celebrity didn't give me a chubby!" act is extremely irritating.

Oh, and Margi, Laurence Simon is totally slamming Dick Clark's appearance. But (1) I've never seen him go off on female celebrities and (2) it's for the Dead Pool, so, you know, the deader they look, the more it's remarked on. With relish.

Just looked at Mariah . . . I cannot stand butt-fringe dresses but other than that, I don't think she looks any worse than any 50s-era pinup ever did. She's not popping out of that dress to near the extent Marilyn Monroe used to pop out of some of hers, either.

Good for her. Hey, you know who's on the cover of some damn fitness magazine right now? Sheryl Crow. Sheryl "Count my ribs, please" Crow. That is to vomit, an activity with which I'm sure Sheryl is all too familiar. There is nothing healthy about her at all and no magazine dedicated to fitness should put her bulimic ass on the cover.

Ilyka, you're awesome. I really appreciate what you've contributed here and at Feministe -- you're quite skilled at making great arguments in a succinct way. I wish I had that ability! I wish I could similarly express how helpful this kind of support has been. Thank you.

Jill, go to bed! Ain't those Percosets kicked in yet? :P

Hmm. I look at the pictures and think she's very cute and if she's in any way considered fat then I'm pulling down all of the pictures I have of me on the web.

But then, from what I've seen on the web, those kind of comments are what you "get" if you blog as a "feministe". When you come out as a strong woman, be prepared for the men with the emotional IQ of a ball of yarn to take issue with you. Considering many of the nasty comments about her had the spelling my 9 year old stepson can correct with his little red Homer Simpson pen, it really enforces my belief that the anti-feminist men in the world really are sitting around in a football jersey, with toenail fungus and dreams of those glory high school days where the words "Chug! Chug! Chug!" were enough to end the day in a blaze of orgasm.

There's no justice in this world.

When you come out as a strong woman, be prepared for the men with the emotional IQ of a ball of yarn to take issue with you. Considering many of the nasty comments about her had the spelling my 9 year old stepson can correct with his little red Homer Simpson pen, it really enforces my belief that the anti-feminist men in the world really are sitting around in a football jersey, with toenail fungus and dreams of those glory high school days where the words "Chug! Chug! Chug!" were enough to end the day in a blaze of orgasm.

I am QUOTING this much because YOU RULE this much. Holy shit, I don't even know where to start. Was it the emotional IQ of a ball of yarn that hooked me? The red Homer Simpson pen? The toenail fungus?

It is all just too damn beautiful. I am in awe.

In AWE, I tell you.

Heh. To be fair, Dave did also mock the appearance of Dick Clark. But usually his thing is freaking out over the fact that most women do not, in fact, resemble soft-core pr0n pinups. Just do a search on his blog for "Mayim Bialik."

Mayim Bialik . . . she's a former child star or something, right? I can't remember--did you post on that one? I thought you had. Anyway, I think she just reminded me of Fred Savage, i.e., she didn't turn out GREAT but she didn't turn out UGLY, either. Yet Dave was acting like she was a total monstrosity.

Lair Simon is an equal-opportunity offender. He will slam men and women alike, in the most tasteless and offensive manner. That's frankly one of the things I like the best about him. He treats everyone equally.

Well, except he doesn't rag on the Jews. He once wrote a post why he won't. (Essentially, everyone else does, so go somewhere else to rag on us.) 'Course, he breaks that rule from time to time.

You know, if you disallow flames in your comments, it stops people from flaming you. Well, after you delete them.

OMGMARIAHCAREYLOOKSLIKEANADULTFEMALEHUMAN!!!

I've thought about posting a photo, but I'm trying to remain at least semi-anonymous. Also, I admit to not being comfortable with my looks right now, since I'm overweight.

But the main reason has to do with exactly what Jill is going through right now. I don't want weirdos and perverts looking at me and saying vile things about me.

While I pretty much disagree with Jill on just about everything, I think the people on that forum are a bunch of knuckledragging scum. They have basically threatened her and she ought to report them.

I just hope that those at Feministe know that the behavior of those people is not "conservative" behavior and it doesn't represent conservatives.

And one more thing...anyone who thinks Jill or Mariah Carey are fat is an idiot. Believe me, I know what fat looks like and they are not fat!

"A bunch of knuckledragging scum" about sums it up.

And this whole thing goes a long way towards explaining why I am increasingly most at home on either feminist left or the traditionally conservative right, but am completely aliented by the so-called "libertarian wing" of the Republican party.

On the feminist left, it's going to be pointed out that this kind of thing is vile and misogynistic because it's anti-woman.

On the traditionally conservative right, it's going to be pointed out that this kind of thing is vile and misogynistic because it's against what God wants, it's against a gentlemanly code of conduct, it's anti-family, what have you--but from either approach, you do at least arrive at the common ground of "Please do not be a total jerkwad."

The libertarians?--Whine about free speech and urge me to read Cathy Young columns.

No thanks.

Hi everyone. My name's Dave Munger. I'm a total fucking cockslap who clearly didn't read the new rules. Also, I draw things. Really stupid things, really badly.

If you'll excuse me it's time for me to go change the colostomy bag now.

Why is everyone mean to me?

Dave, don't get confused--you're an unpleasant man, not an unpleasant woman.