"and a goodly percentage of men will hear that question as, "Do I look fat in these jeans to you?"

I can always count on you to see through the bullshit. Even mine.

"Dickhead"?!

"Dickhead"?!

Are you outraged yet? Get outraged! And please, Mr. Allah Sir, can you make me a Photoshop?

Hmph. Well, okay -- but only if it's reeeeally cliched.

Holy shit, no one told me it'd turned into a me-bashing thread. This is awesome. This thread . . . this thread is like a zombie.

Yes, apparently I'm the devil and your my unwitting minion. You sold out feminism, man!

Uh...

(bashes Ilyka).

There, I feel better.

"Do I look fat in these jeans to you?"

Just between us, Ilyka, what's the correct answer to that? I've tried yes, no, and mumbling incoherently. I've also tried pretending not to hear. Once. She interpreted that as not listening. Knocked me right out of the frying pan, that did.

When's the last time you met a straight man obsessed with Judy Garland?

Right here. And Vivien Leigh. And Audrey Hepburn. Especially Audrey Hepburn.

None of these women were super-model class beauties but they were all perfectly gorgeous.

And Linda Carter. I think that's where my bondage fetish started.

Mmmmm, Lynda Carter . . . oh yeah.

You're being bashed? I kept up with the comments till about 250, then I got distracted by American Idol discussion.

The problem with "Do I look fat" is, guys have their own corollary. Among male friends, a guy will ask, "Does this shirt make me look gay?" A perfectly acceptable answer is: "Not as gay as that dick you had in your mouth last night." It settles the whole thing, by establishing that the second guy really couldn't give a shit, 'cause he knows his friend isn't gay.

My GF doesn't ask the fat question, but I always thought a good response might be: "AAGGH, fuck yeah! Big fat fuckable ASS!!" And then you . . . well, one does things to indicate how fond one is of her flesh. Whatever one is capable of.

Looks like I'll never get a chance, so I need some brave dude out there to try it for me.

You're being bashed?

I exaggerate a little, but I still want a t-shirt that reads, "I Sold Out Feminism And All I Got Were These STUNNING Highlights."

"Not as gay as that dick you had in your mouth last night."

Dude, by now you certainly know that if you give away lines like that I will rack my brains searching for an opportunity to USE THEM. Because I have no maturity.

I might very well buy such a shirt!

Answers I would accept, without flying off the handle, to the do-I-look-fat-in-these question, since Rob asked:

"To be honest, those have never been my favorite. I think the black [skirt/pair of slacks] look(s) better on you." (Every woman has either a pair of black slacks or a black skirt in her closet. This saves you having to notice what's actually in her closet. If for some crazy reason she doesn't have a either a black skirt or slacks in the closet, remind her you're color-blind and you may have meant something else; then, whatever else she grabs, say, "Yeah, THAT! You look FANTASTIC in that!" Feign color-blindness even if you are not actually color-blind, because I guarantee your woman thinks you are color-blind, because we think ALL of you are color-blind.)

"Not too bad, but let's face it: We could both stand to hit the gym more often. It's my fault for being a bad influence on you. Without me around pining for country-fried steak and biscuits, you'd probably be TOO thin. I've always envied how well you keep in shape, but it's time for me to start doing my part to help with that." (It's difficult--though not impossible--for a woman to get pissed at you when you've just said up front that it's all your fault.)

And the Big Lie:

"Are you kidding?--I love what those jeans do for your behind. I can't WAIT to get them off you."

These are just my opinions, YMMV, etc.

"Not too bad, but let's face it: We could both stand to hit the gym more often. It's my fault for being a bad influence on you. Without me around pining for country-fried steak and biscuits, you'd probably be TOO thin. I've always envied how well you keep in shape, but it's time for me to start doing my part to help with that."

Please. All that would get him is a few hours' reprieve. Instead of a knockdown drag-out fight right then and there about what an insensitive pig he is, he'd get the silent treatment. Until, that is, an opportunity arose later in the evening for her to blow up at him over it. E.g.,

WAITER: Are you ready to order?
HIM: Yes, I'll have the porterhouse.
HER: And I'll have the lobster. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Honey, is it okay if I have the lobster? I know you want to "DO YOUR PART" TO KEEP ME FROM HAVING A BIG FAT ASS.

Knockdown drag-out fight ensues, albeit in hushed tones lest any of the other restaurant patrons notice.

God, how I miss it.

On the post overall: I'm still pretty stunned that a woman can ask, "Hey, isn't having the sternum and rib cage be the most protruding part of a woman's chest a little sick and wrong?" and a goodly percentage of men will hear that question as, "Do I look fat in these jeans to you?" Those are completely different questions.

First: Your absolutely right that a lot of people are answering the wrong question. Especially after Michele clarified the statement essentially saying "Don't give me the 'Do I look fat?' bullshit, that's not what I'm asking for." I can somewhat understand the reaction but not after expressly stating otherwise, it's just dense.

Second: (Assuming Michele hadn't clarified the question beforehand) I can somewhat understand the natural reaction to answering a different question than the one asked in this case. In my very large and statistically valid sample size of 1 :-), (well, maybe 2 or 3) when a goodly portion of women ask men questions like "Do this make me look fat?" the question isn't "Should I pick out something different because this isn't flattering to my figure?" The question is "Am I attractive?". They're not looking for constructive criticism about wardrob choices, they're looking for affirmation. Men, in response, have learned to answer the question they believe was asked instead of the one that was actually asked.

In my (quite limited) personal experience, the question "You can't really find that attractive, do you?" is in the same class as "Does this make me look fat".

Of course it makes a difference when the situation is bf/gf while sitting on the beach and when it's posted on a blog with a disclaimer.

because we think ALL of you are color-blind.

That is, of course, because we are. We see in at most 10 colors: ROYGBIV, black, white, and grey. Peach is a fruit, not a color.

<Light Hearted Snark>So much for not making grand sweeping generalizations.</Light Hearted Snark> :-)

Please. All that would get him is a few hours' reprieve.

Hey, like I said--it's what'd work with me. No guarantees on anyone else.

Truth be told, neither of those answers (Not counting The Big Lie because I'm not nearly brave enough to try it) would work for me. The first wouldn't work because it's not specific enough (I'd never get away with "Wear the black ones"). She still has every piece of clothing that has ever graced her body and I don't know which ones were from which periods or whether they still fit. Too risky.

The second answer is inadequate because everything IS my fault. I think she even said that in her vows. So even after I cite your well thought out words of wisdom, her resonse would be something along the lines of "And?".

Basically, the best answers are to A) Change the subject, B) Lie, C) Run like Hell, or D) Just go wait in the car no matter how late you are.

Answer to the "do these jeans make me look fat" question when you suspect the subtext is "am I still attractive to you?" should probably be "Honey, you're not feeling insecure, are you?" This should be followed by cuddling, at least, and possibly seduction.

If you suspect you're being asked by someone who really wants to know, then simply give an honest answer.

How about "I sold out feminism, and all I got was this pretty peach polish on my toenails."

"To be honest, those have never been my favorite. I think the black [skirt/pair of slacks] look(s) better on you."

You have got to be kidding. Most guys neither know nor give a shit what clothing a woman owns, until he sees her wearing them. A frequent exchange between me and the girlfriend is:

ME: Wow! I love this thing on you!!

HER: I know -- You always say that!

ME: You mean you already had this?

My memories of Outfits Previously Worn is strictly limited to particularly good capital-M Moments we had, Moments with a visual aspect. It ain't the outfit. WE DON'T FUGGIN' CARE.

You know, everyone always says this--about how men don't notice women's clothes. But every single semi-serious boyfriend I've ever had was visual enough that while he wouldn't necessarily be able to recite all my outfits by rote, he had a good command of my working wardrobe.

Once in a while my husband will ask, "is that new?" If he's wrong it will be because the thing's been a "closet spectre" for a couple of years, and has been hanging there until I found the right whatever to wear with it. He's rarely wrong.

Which says something interesting about me, perhaps--that I date guys who have some minimum visual orientation.

Okay, subtle modification. I do always know when I've never seen something before, but I don't always know when I have seen it.

And I do have preferences. But clothes on the hanger (or in her case, the closet floor) don't translate into an image of her wearing them.

Jumping in here -- very late in the game, I know -- but I had to tell you a few things:

Firstly, I read that post and all the comments. Yes. All of them. There's a few hours of my life I can't get back. Ahh well. I'll sleep when I'm dead. But I gotta tell you I was fascinated! FAASCINATED buy it.

Secondly, I don't ask my husband such questions. I say, "is this outfit acceptable?" because we BOTH know my ass is way bigger than it needs to be. As my husband says, "There's a bullet in every chamber" with questions like those.

Thirdly, if I promise to be very good do you suppose I can be one of Allah -- er, I mean SATAN's -- minions, too? Oh, and I'm with Ith. . .I'd buy that shirt. Because my highlights ARE quite stunning, darling. Heh.

Thirdly, and finally, but most importantly. . .

Because of that post, I actually sat here at my computer, with my husband looking over my shoulder and we gazed for several minutes at soft-core porn. Then we had an intelligent discussion about cultural anthropology and gave our (not surprisingly similar) interpretation of this whole discussion.

Then we adjourned to the bedroom and boinked like bunnies. THAT's entertainment!

So. . .thanks. Ya'll. Aheh.