June 27, 2005

Suspended Between Nausea and Disgust

Oh, this is special, so special: Another Great Moment in Blogging that I missed while moving.

Tell me why I craved an internet connection so badly while I was without one, because right now I swear I can't remember.

You know, you don't get exclusive rights to the "feminist" label (and all the abuse that comes with it--because let's face it, that's the real perk of it right there), and you don't get to gloat about how yours is the only side that really values women's issues, and you don't get to pat yourselves on the back for blazing the trail for women everywhere (of all nations! Colors! Creeds! Religions! Classes! Backgrounds!), if your reaction to a group of female conservative bloggers getting together to try to move on up this here blog ladder is to regress to eighth-grade bitchiness:

Embrace your prig-hood, ladies. You aren't getting bonus points and spared from being called prigs by me because you express affection for a culture that's long past and no threat to you now.
Embrace your insularity, Amanda.
Bring me the head of whoever said this citizen journaliatizement thing was good.
Word to that! Only progressive women ought to speak their minds, because they're the only women who have minds to speak. The rest of us just have to recite whatever Karl Rove tells us to. And he uses such big words, too! Mean Mr. Rove, mean!

Oh, but he's so cute though.

Leave silly surveys all over the place, m'dears, but y'all never have the story about 3 friends, a chandelier, the local fire department and a couple bottles of Jose Cuervo to gloat over.
Wait, this was directed at Darleen, and as some of you know I'm not always fond of Darleen, so . . .

. . . no, you know something? Whether I like Darleen or agree with what she has to say doesn't enter into it, because as a matter of fact, it's still a dumb, petty, bitchy thing to say. I have a better sex life than you. Ooh, and I'll bet you got breasts sooner and kissed boys before I did and made the cheerleading squad, too. Wanna medal?

I don't care about that shit. Can you write? Can you make me think? Can you make me doubt what I'm sure I know, reexamine questions I've already answered, consider things in a way I hadn't before? Can you make me think? Or do you just really excel at being juvenile? Because I know how to find LiveJournal already.

Not that I enjoy being bitchy or anything, but I took a look at her oh so risque page and, honestly, would you fuck either of these people?
Pardon me, but obviously you do enjoy being bitchy. Oh, I know: Darleen asked for it by linking her photos and her weblog in the first place. (You progressive women, y'all love the "she asked for it" argument, am I right?)

On the other hand, Amanda, you did just exhort an entire group of women, most of whom you don't read and don't know, to "embrace their prig-hood." On the basis of . . . I don't know. Old stereotypes of repressed, religious Republicans mixed with just enough actual examples to pass off as gospel, I guess.

Yes, some conservative women don't see anything to "gloat" about when it comes to sexual promiscuity. Yes, some conservative women like pearls and pumps. Yes, some conservative women do have copies of The Surrendered Wife at home. Yes, some conservative women have the awfully annoying habit of simultaneously reaping the rewards of feminism while denigrating the progressive women who blazed that trail for them in the first damn place. I'll back you up on that last particularly.

And some liberal women do have overgrown armpit hair and do wear no shoes but Birkenstocks and do smell horrid from bathing in environmentally-friendly "natural" products that don't contain any actual "soap" and do view men with suspicion and mistrust, if not actual loathing . . . but it wouldn't be very helpful of me to harp continually on that stereotype, so guess what? I don't.

Oh, I forgot: We're all about feminism until it threatens to include women who don't think like we do, vote like we do, fuck like we do (this is apparently the most important factor when judging women, and I'm right happy I've got women on the left to tell me that)--so to hell with being helpful.

remember those girls in high school who explained those horrid monkey-bites on their necks by saying they were really curling iron burns? Just saying ...
Finally, someone makes an actual high school reference in a thread that was flashing me back to high school anyhow.

Curling irons. Ai.

Then we have the who's-the-biggest-prig contest between Amanda and Darleen. You know--the important shit that women blog about when they're not being oppressed by The Man:

Still, it's the sort of cat-fighting we don't have enough of in the blogosphere, or at least that's what I hear. And maybe it's enough to scare away any other Cotillion members who want to go toe-to-toe with the Panda-bloggers and crew.
I think this is the part where I'm supposed to be all, "Bitch, bring it," but . . . no. I went to high school once, had enough of it that time, and never was much of a fighter even then, either.

It's just depressing, is what it is. This is going "toe-to-toe"--this fucking catfight? Really? You couldn't pick out a post that covered an actual idea or event or issue--no, you had to fling shit at a fanciful introduction to a damn link roundup, because it's totally outside your ken that a woman could vote Republican and have ever smoked a doobie, flashed some skin, listened to jazz, or taken a drink.

Don't kid yourself, Amanda. That isn't "toe-to-toe." It's just plain being a bitch. Which, great, but then cop to that instead of thumping your chest and declaring yourself too intimidating to those weak-kneed conservative cheerleaders..

Now, let me take a moment to reprogram myself to be in harmony with the rest of the world. Let me recite the mantra:

The Democratic Party is the enlightened party, the party of the open-minded and the intellectually curious, the party of the inclusive not the exclusive, the party of the egalitarian not the elite, the party of the underdog not the overlord, the party of . . .

. . . oh yes indeed you are, my widdle snookums! You are all those things and I am so proud of you!

You go right on telling yourselves that. You go right on wondering why women won't vote "in support of their own issues" and wondering why they are so "self-hating" and such "willing participants" in a "fundamentally patriarchal, misogynistic system" and blah-diddy-blah-blah-blah, and please, don't even consider listening to one of us if we should dare depart from our Rovian scripts long enough to suggest, however timidly, that maybe it's actually easier for us to shrug off a Republican guy begging us to "post more photos so I can link you once in awhile," than it is for us to shrug off an entire bitchfest led by the women who claim they're only trying to help us.

You can shove that help right up your asses. You're no sisters of mine.

Posted by Ilyka at June 27, 2005 04:54 AM in hell is other people


What a childish hypocrite, eh? She's no more a "feminist" than Paris Hilton.

Posted by: Beth at June 27, 2005 05:06 AM

for this, were in your town,
then i'd buy you a beer.
though you're the feminist's feminist,
you are still such a dear.

one thing, i implore to you:
keep teachin' the youth.
younga sistas need the guidance
for they are so uncouth.

Posted by: rammer at June 27, 2005 05:11 AM

Oh Beth you hush, now, b/c Paris is like totally my idol, she is so hott and besides she gets way more dick than I do and that's what makes a true feminist.

Seriously?--I would rather attend a week-long seminar on women in blogging by John Hawkins, Rob Smith, and Richard Bennett than spend 24 hours with Amanda Marcotte. At least I'd get a laugh outta Hawkins.

Posted by: ilyka at June 27, 2005 05:12 AM

Well, I'm glad you were offended. In reality, I don't claim to have a better sex life than anyone. But I do claim a better sense of humor.

I'm offended at people who whine that I mock their sex lives while trying to use the law to control others. That's my stance and you aren't whining me away from it.

Posted by: Amanda Marcotte at June 27, 2005 05:19 AM

And calling someone a bitch is a great way to advance the cause of women.

Posted by: Amanda Marcotte at June 27, 2005 05:20 AM

And calling someone a bitch is a great way to advance the cause of women.

Oh, nice try with the word games, but no: I said what you were doing was not "going toe-to-toe" but rather "just plain being a bitch." That's a criticism of your behavior, in that particular circumstance, not a criticism of your essential nature, your worth as a human being, etc.

But then, I suspect you know that well enough, and just want me to fall all over myself with guilt over bringing out the b-word. Well, tell me this: When a guy's being a sexist asshole, what phrase do you use to describe his behavior? Because I just say he's being a sexist asshole, myself.

Posted by: ilyka at June 27, 2005 05:34 AM

You're being a sexist asshole, then. Regardless of your sex.

Posted by: Amanda Marcotte at June 27, 2005 12:37 PM

You're being a sexist asshole, then.

Yeah, uh, I can see that . . . listen, I don't mean to be a priggish Republican here, but I have to ask: Are you on drugs? I'm talking about what you wrote, and you were writing about who these women were--what they looked like, how their lives were undoubtedly lived--you really don't see any difference?

See, I'm not the one who branded a bunch of women priggish (a word which, fortunately, is never used to demean women on the basis of their sexuality or repression thereof) because of who they vote for, what measures they're for or against, or what they think and write.

Is it just THAT hard to say "Sure, sometimes I bring the hate against other women, but these are all wingnut women, so fuck 'em?" Honestly, I can't see any other rationale for that post.

I don't necessarily mind vicious partisanship, you know. I just prefer that you have the balls (OMG! I mean ovaries! No courage--COURAGE! OMG I AM SO SORRY!) to be out about it. I don't think that's asking a lot, and I damn sure don't think that's sexist.

Posted by: ilyka at June 27, 2005 01:18 PM

Hot damn.

Just...hot damn.

Vituperative flensing at its sharpest.

Posted by: Jim at June 27, 2005 10:25 PM


Whoa, Judy Blume flashback.

Posted by: mrs. minish at June 27, 2005 10:46 PM

You know, I'm not getting the whole sense of humor vibe from Miss -- oops, excuse me, Ms. -- Marcotte here. I'm just saying.

I say we all take up a collection and get 'Manda an "I am a humorless feminist" t-shirt. I'll just dip into my Man's beer fund. He won't notice -- and even if he does, he's so manly when he gets angry that I'm too busy being all thrilled to mind the black eye. I just call it a "love tap" to myself and tell my coworkers I bumped into a door. (Yeah, 'Mandy, we're all like that, us submissive conservative women, right?)

Posted by: Andrea Harris at June 27, 2005 11:17 PM

Woman, I love you. Brilliant.

As for the Anti-Woman: last time I checked, oppression of women - you know, by shaming them - was baaaaaad juju, but I was raised by feminists, so go figure. I guess not everyone absorbed the central concept of feminism that demands respect for the validity of a woman's choices, regardless of whether we agree with them.

Posted by: liv at June 28, 2005 05:44 AM

Brilliant post. Thank you for saying what all us "prigs" have been thinking.


Posted by: RightGirl at June 28, 2005 04:47 PM

Oh, girl. You DO know how to write. That was refreshing and wonderful. As always.

(Gawd. I have to stop commenting with just the "me too!" or gushy love-comments, huh? Oh well, you'll have to deal.)

You know what? I'm too old for that sort of playground "toe-to-toe" right now. Then again, I've always felt I was "too old" for it.

Posted by: Margi at June 28, 2005 09:23 PM

I'm offended at people who whine that I mock their sex lives while trying to use the law to control others. That's my stance and you aren't whining me away from it.

Yeah...who knew the Detestable Darlene was behind all those horribly repressive laws? And here I thought it was Congress... silly me.

I'm amused at people who get so riled up at one tiny little comment that they waste hours creating an entire post to respond to it.

Got insecurity? Christ.

Posted by: Cassandra at June 28, 2005 10:22 PM

Got insecurity?

YEE-ESSSSS! Right here! Buckets of it! Oh my gosh--do I win? What'd I win?!? Tell me what I won!

Oh wait, you were asking Amanda.

Never mind.

Posted by: ilyka at June 28, 2005 10:27 PM

You are bitchin' cool, Ilyka.

(Oh! Shit! I said "bitchin'!" I meant you were cool cool, or hot cool, or awesomely coolly hot! What words are allowed today? I'm just so confused! War is peace! Up is down! Putting women down is feminist!)

Posted by: Attila Girl at June 28, 2005 11:10 PM

Heh... I think the table was what put me over the edge. Good God - women can be so fucking weird sometimes. Right now I'm feeling insecure about the fact that no one ever calls me a sexist asshole. All I ever get are trolls who call me a cheerleader for the BushReich. I think there was something filthy about sleeping with a babykiller in there too.

But I enjoy that part, so I blew it off.

We all have our insecurities. The sad thing is when we take them out on other people. Nice post - I really enjoyed it.

Posted by: Cassandra at June 29, 2005 12:31 AM

Awesome post, Ilyka!

I've long had a hard time taking "feminist" women seriously. The whole "women are always right, just as long as they agree 100% with us" jive always struck me as downright, well, Orwellian .

Some women do act like bitches from time to time and this needs pointing out. I never understood why feminists are so hung up on words. I guess they don't like to have their negative attributes pointed out.

But, of course, "feminist" women have no negative points, how sexist of me to think otherwise! I'm being a self hating sexist asshole, oh my.

After the overreaction to the Pie Fight advert on Kos, I've pretty much stopped reading "feminist" blogs. The shrill level of ridiculousness is veering into parody.

Posted by: Kim at June 29, 2005 01:54 AM

Thanks for your kind words, Kim.

After the overreaction to the Pie Fight advert on Kos

I'm still catching up on that one, but as nearly as I can tell, the issue wasn't that they "overreacted."

Apparently a few women complained. In response, Kos wrote a typically-sneering post about how he'd be damned if he were gonna listen to the humorless "women's studies" crowd--and THAT remark was what had everybody pissed off.

I don't blame them. On a progressive liberal blog, a woman ought to be able to question a cheesecake ad without getting tarred with the hairy-man-hatin'-lesbian brush. Demanding a more civil response on the whole thing from a man on the right might be foolish (and then again, maybe not--many men on the right are what I'll just term "gentlemen," and could address such concerns without the trademark Zuniga sneer), but demanding it of a supposed liberal is eminently fair.

I don't think it's asking too much of Kos that he conform to the ideals he wants to beat others over the head with. I do think it's hilarious that these women didn't catch on after MercenerieGate that Kos's ego will never permit him to apologize. They haven't learned anything the pro-war didn't learn two years ago, really.

Posted by: ilyka at June 29, 2005 03:58 AM

Sorry to intrude on a women's line, but I have to toss this in:

When in college (1989-90) I tried to take a course for my humanities requirement (I was a chemistry guy). The title was intriguing - HIS 231, Women in History. History was my minor; I signed up (hoping for Jean d'Arc, Mary Queen of Scots, Elizabeth I, etc.). I was told that I could not take the class because, hold your breath, I was a MAN! The course was required for Women's Studies - no male students allowed, no male professors to teach.

If this is not the height of sexism that the feminist movement claims to abhor, I do not know what it is.

BTW - I am happily married to a more highly educated woman; right now she decided children are more important than a career, so I am working my buns off to support HER decision to be a full time mom. I offered to stay home; she prefers that job to my daily grind.

Posted by: Dave (the barbarian) at June 29, 2005 02:05 PM

Sorry to intrude on a women's line

Ain't a "women's line." You see Jim up there? Wave hello to Dave, Jim!

I was told that I could not take the class because, hold your breath, I was a MAN! The course was required for Women's Studies - no male students allowed, no male professors to teach.

There's no place for that in education, and of course my inner capitalist thinks if you're willing to pay for it, they shouldn't be able to deny you the course.

I think you might get a kick out of this post, Dave--confessions of a former bra-burner, so to speak; and maybe even a glimpse into what you missed by not being able to take that class.

Doesn't sound to me like it was much.

Posted by: ilyka at June 29, 2005 02:20 PM

I love you, Ilka (in a post-modern feminist, we-are-all-sistas, totally-hetero way, of course...)

Posted by: Susie at July 1, 2005 03:30 PM